Surround-Sound Suggestions

[Morgon]

So I'm looking for some ideas on systems for the living room; the TV Speaker just isn't cuttin' it anymore.

Some questions that really aren't linked to each other:
- Are there any systems with wireless speakers that aren't IR?
- Is there a strong advantage with getting separate receiver and speakers, versus an all-inclusive 'set'?
- How would you support multiple optical connections? My FiOS STB and 360 both have optical outs. Can/Do sets normally have multiple optical-in connections, or how might that work?
- Do any systems allow remote operation of speakers/configurations? If I have guests in the house, maybe I'd only want the rear speakers (by the seats) active, and not the front ones near the TV, which are also near the bedrooms.

My setup is fairly standard: TV on the wall (47" Philips Ambilight-2, since I know you freaks'll wanna know ), A/V underneath, couch against opposite wall, La-Z-Boy off to the side. Room for speakers in the corners on each side of the couch and in front.

The 'monkey said I'd get a dozen responses, so start your braindumps

[Serren]

That is a bunch of questions!

1) There are 2.4 GHz wireless speakers on the market. Just remember they each require a power outlet, thus making them not really wireless.

2) If your talking about a Home Theatre in a Box (HTIB), a bundled amp with speakers vs. buying each part seperate, here is my opinion. I nice $500+ HTIB form Onkyo or comparable would probably suffice for the majority of home theater gamers out there. Can you listen to MP3's without complaing about the poor audio quality? If mp's sound fine, I doubt you have the "ear" required to notice a difference from a $500 setup to a $5000 setup.

3) Most amps have 2-4 optical audio inputs. If your devices are using HDMI, a newer receiver can take the single hdmi cable and get BOTH the audio and video into itself. And then pass the video back to your tv. This is the best way to go.

4) Most receivers have methods of controlling which speakers are on. I am not sure I have seen one that allows a 5.1 to use only rear speakers in stereo mode though. It might be possibile, but it would be goofy. Almost all amps do have speakers set A and speaker set B. A is normally the 5.1/7.1 output, and B is normally a stereo option. This makes it very easy to do what I think your trying.

Good luck!

[Rhino Chaser]

I can't wait to see the responses on this topic...there are some real ardent supporters of various receiver manufacturers in here.

Morgon, I recently helped a friend out with his install. He was wireless. Wireless tech has come a long way. But I think that until there is a solid set of wifi speakers on the market it won't be something that I really want. I think that there are a few emerging. But nothing that has caught my eye lately. Correct me if I am wrong.

One of the things that I noticed about wireless is that the systems that I have seen aren't truly wireless. The rears need to be wired to a receiving unit. They also need power…

So all you are doing is saving yourself from running a set of speaker wires to your rears.

If you are in a location that you can’t drill walls there are ways to do a quality install and still mask your speaker wires.

The system that he had was an all inclusive set, and wireless.

My first system was all-inclusive.

Both were underpowered.

There are some good systems out there. But breaking things into components seems to me a better solution in quality and in a long term investment in your system, with a greater degree of flexibility. There are good sounding inclusive systems, but you can often get better results by getting a really good system.

I personally bought my receiver 1st then saved some money for speakers that matched well with the system and I didn’t bust my bank.

I shopped and got deals on everything. I did the same for my friend and he is very happy.

What I do is shop all of the retailers for open box items and haggle. I ended up getting him a $1400 receiver for $600 and a quality set of speakers for a killer deal. Or you could just shop online.

I am still using my Yamaha RX-V1400 receiver and Energy Encore system and it has been about 5yrs since I picked them up. My inclusive box system lasted about 6 months before I upgraded. Main thing is matching the capabilities of your speakers to the output of your receiver and match your speakers.

I ended up buying my speakers in a set with 4 satellite speakers, a center, and a sub. Then I added 2 more matched satellite speakers. I feel that I have an excellent soundstage and I can hear people breathing hard in Halo 3 when the sneak up to assassinate me.

Most quality receivers will have Zone 1 and 2 capabilities. The thing to look for is a powered 2nd zone that runs off you’re your main amp. Some of them require a 2nd amp. Keep in mind that you usually need to figure out how to run your IR for remote control back to the amp from the 2nd location. Mine works this way, but will only run it off of analog inputs.

As far as optical inputs are concerned, make sure that your receiver has enough of them. Also, keep in mind what you will be using for HDMI audio as well. You can always get an optical switch. But I think that my receiver has at least 5 optical inputs.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any questions about any of this.

[Peench]

Originally Posted by Morgon

So I'm looking for some ideas on systems for the living room; the TV Speaker just isn't cuttin' it anymore.

You came to the right place. I'll give you some general information and let others fill in with their opinions as well. Theater and speaker systems, however, are like music. There are some that you will like and others you won't. What works for some, may not work for you. It is best to audition any speaker setup you are thinking of buying before you buy it.

- Are there any systems with wireless speakers that aren't IR?

IMO wireless speaker systems just aren't quite there yet in terms of performance. While you might be able to get away with something basic (and expensive), you will still need a wire for power to that speaker and you will likely have interference and other issues. IMO, this is not a great solution considering expense v. performance.

To answer your specific question, however, I am not positive.

- Is there a strong advantage with getting separate receiver and speakers, versus an all-inclusive 'set'?

You will get better performance from buying a separate receiver and speakers than you will within an all-in-one. The AIO's are designed to be simple to connect, but are usually lacking in the performance department. If you go separate from the outset, you will always be able to upgrade one or two components/speakers, etc. at a later date without having to toss the whole thing and start over (unless you really want to change things up). Typically with the AIO's you would have to start all over again to upgrade.

- How would you support multiple optical connections? My FiOS STB and 360 both have optical outs. Can/Do sets normally have multiple optical-in connections, or how might that work?

Most all receivers or pre-amps will have multiple audio connections. Even my 10 year old Yamaha has 4 or so optical inputs. Just make sure that the receiver you are considering has enough inputs to support what you have now and a couple more for the future and you should be alright. Also, as more devices are going towards HDMI, you may also want to make sure that your receiver has an HDMI input (or more).

If you are buying separates, you can pick and choose what options are important to you in any given receiver. Inputs, outputs, wattage, upconversion of SD material, etc.

- Do any systems allow remote operation of speakers/configurations? If I have guests in the house, maybe I'd only want the rear speakers (by the seats) active, and not the front ones near the TV, which are also near the bedrooms.

Yes and no. Many middle to high end receivers will allow you control A and B speakers. How you set them up will depend on how you want to use the different speakers in combination with each other.

The no part has to do with how a 5.1 or 7.1 matrix is usually set up. Typically the majority of your sound will come from your center channel. From there the front speakers have the next highest duty. The rear speakers are usually only used for fill sound and/or surround sounds and are not typically pumping out sound all the time. I suppose you could wire them up so that they could be the Primary B speakers (front L and R), but then you'd lose your center channel and surround sound field.

Like I said though, there are thousands of ways to approach the subject. The best way IMO is to set a budget and then look for items within that budget. The biggest bang for your buck at the outset will be the receiver and the sub. There are loads of great receivers out there and SVS or Hsu subs will knock your socks off without taking too big of a bite out of your wallet. From there the speakers you select should depend on your price range and what you personally have listened to and determined sounds good to you.

Keep asking questions and we'll keep helping with the research!

[Morgon]

Thanks for the responses, they've been very helpful so far!
Ignore my optical comment. Both the STB and the 360 are on HDMI connections, and from what I'm reading, pose no quality threat against optical connections.

Given your explanation of the channels, Peench, what would you (or anyone) say to someone who has their couch against the wall, directly between what would become the rear speakers? Should I start rearrangement plans to put the couch in the middle of the room where it "should" be? :P

So I seem to have specific suggestions for SVS and Hsu.. anyone else wanna flash their gang symbol in here?

I would say 'money is no object', but obviously I don't want to spend more than the cost of my TV on the receiver alone.

What kind of differences would I want to anticipate for a 'tower' type of speaker (the tall, slim one if I don't have my vocabulary correct) over the standard box-type? Or are they all pretty much towers these days?

Any other 'gotchas' I should be looking out for that I haven't specifically asked about? Or to put it a better way, were there any specific things that you were surprised with during your experiences?

[Serren]

I have my rear speakers mounted in the ceiling, to the left and right of the couch, just past each couch arm. I am sure that a audiophile would say that this is not right, but it does sound good. They also sell in-wall speakers you could get to place in the wall behind your couch.

As far as brands, I like Paradigm for speakers and Onkyo for the receiver.

Going back to the HTIB, or all-in-one, brands do sell more expensive kits that will do exactly what you want and will have almost all the bells and whistels you could ask for. Less then $1,000 easy.

The features on the higher price amps get really expensive per feature fast. I would be careful that you dont buy more then you will ever need.

For comparison sake, I bought a samsung floor model HTIB a year or so ago for $99 bucks. It has five speakers, a sub, 5 disk cd/dvd changer, and two optical inputs. All this for less then $100. I picked up a $100 Yamaha sub to replace the included non-powered one that came with the kit though. Watching DVD's and playing my PS3 sounds pretty darn good. My living room setup has over two grand in speakers. They do sound better, but not $1,800 dollars better. I have since replaced the cheapy Samsung with an hdmi switching amp which through onkyo.com was less then $200. So I have still spent less then $400 for a system that sounds very nice.

But I am not an audiophile. And I am glad for this!

[Peench]

Morgon - I second Serren's recommendation for Paradigm speakers. I have 2 sets of them and love their sound. But like I said, sound is a personal thing. Speakers that sound awesome to some, may not sound awesome to everyone. You absolutely should listen to them before you buy them! I have a paradigm sub as well (servo 15.. oh yeah and a PDR 10), but I have heard both the HSU and SVS subs and they kick arse for much less.

As far as the placement of your couch, don't worry too much about it. My couch is closer to my left rear, then my right rear. I compensated when I calibrated my system by picking my sweat spot seat and then setting the right a bit hotter than the left. That way the sound level is the same for both speakers when you are sitting in the sweet spot for your surround setup.

Tower speakers are great if you are going to be doing alot of 2 channel listening (music usually). That way you get the additional boost of the mid subs in the towers themselves (unless you go def-tech with subs in each). If you are going to be mainly using them for surround setups, you can really get away with a nice pair of smaller bookshelf type speakers. This is especially true if you pick up a nice sub. This way you have the extra room and your sub does all the heavy work for low end stuff.

As far as optical/hdmi, they are both digital connections so shouldn't differ. Well technically I suppose they are different, but in terms of quality, shouldn't be an issue. I think that HDMI may support more channels of audio or more bandwidth, but I'm not sure.

As far as pitfalls, if you do your homework, ask loads of questions here and elsewhere and audition your speakers, there shouldn't be any!

[Rhino Chaser]

I agree. My speakers are mounted on the walls just below the ceiling to either side of the couch. In fact one is closer to the couch than the other.

My Yamaha has a mic that allows you to perform an auto-setup. The sound stage is great.

I tried to make it perfect, but unless you set up a room specifically for HT you will be SOL...at least that has been my experience. My lady will come along and say something like: "you know, I think that the couch looks better over here..."

Most good recievers are set up to accomodate various speaker sizes. Some brands are create an outstanding soundstage.

Mainly it is up to your ears to decide...everyone is different. What sounds good to you? Go to the stores and bring the audio format of dvd that you will be listening to. Have them demo the speakers using just the amp (or comparable amp) to what you will be purchasing...a lot of times the guys at stores will add in a better amplifier, or additional speakers and give you a false impression of the speakers that you are listening to. If they pull that trick it is perfectly legal, in most states, to grab a bat and start hitting things until the rectify the situation. "Rhino said it was ok to...," is also a perfectly acceptable reason for such behavior if people wearing badges to ask any questions.

Towers will impart more midrange. If you go with towers make sure that you match your center and surrounds. Polk has a great website for checking out what speakers work well together. I also relly like my Energy speakers.