HD-DVD Add-on Quality

[D_Litch]

I will be picking up a HDTV in April or May, and I was planning on picking up a HD-DVD add-on as well. In the new issue of EGM, they do a "HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray" article and a Wired magazine writer calls the Add-on "Among the worst out there" and said the colors were "muddled" and fine details were "fuzzier than other drives".

I've talked to a few friends who pick them up and they love them. That being said, they never owned a HD-DVD player before the add-on. I am directing this question towards PGLers who have owned stand-alone players before:

Is the add-on a good HD-DVD player? I have never seen a HD-DVD before, so I will not know the difference, I am just curious.

Btw, I realize the guys at Wired are assholes.

[Woundup]

Personally I can't say becuase I don't own one and I have never seen a HD-DVD or BLu-ray movie. I will say this though, I take everything I read about these 2 formats with a grain of salt. I feel that most information out there right now is propaganda.

[BiffCo]

I would take anything read from EGM with a grain of salt. I've never cared for that mag and they've gotten worse with their bias torwards Sony's consoles lately. Biased opinions belong in single platform mags, not multi-platform ones.

With that said, I don't believe the reviewers judgement for one second. He sounds as though he doesn't have his equipment setup or calibrated properly. I own the HD-A1 and love the quality. I plan on purchasing a PS3 next month as well just to have both formats at my disposal. Blu-ray just has some exclusive titles that HDDVD doesn't offer. Quality wise, they are both capable of producing the same quality.

I would recommend the HDDVD add-on for those wanting to get their feet wet in the HD format war for cheap. The quality stated from those that own them here on PGL are that it's an amazing value. Don't let one bad mag sway your decision.

I give it .

-Brad

[dmiller68]

I have the HD-DVD add-on and I have only watched a couple movies and found it pretty good. Considering you are talking about a $200 DVD player I think it is a great value. Well a stand a lone player be better yes most likely however until we see the top tier players (Denon for example) start producing HD-DVD players I think it will do ok. I think HDMI would allow for better sound and picture however you have to have the receiver that can deal with it.

[BiffCo]

I also forgot to mention that it also depends on how the reviewer has things hooked up. Are they using the add-on vs. a standalone BR player? That's a pretty unfair observation. Along the same lines is the question as to if the guy is using component hookups for both. Using component on the 360 and HDMI on the BR/PS3 is another observation that serves no purpose. Using both component video is the only way to compare two different formats.

Also, was the reviewer using the same movie? If not, he should be shot. Muddled shots and fuzziness could be innate to the photography or an artistic decision, or it could be a problem contained in the source print. Also, is the guy watching on a 27" HDTV? If so, it's almost impossible to make comparisons at that size.

All in all, I think you'd be perfectly happy with the HD-DVD add-on, D. And you get a crappy movie that looks and sounds fantastic with it!

-Brad

[BiffCo]

I think HDMI would allow for better sound and picture however you have to have the receiver that can deal with it.

Exactly true but with some caveats. The audio/video quality is limited by the source, so if you source is only Dolby Digital 5.1 at 448kbps, it's not going to increase dynamics or enhance the soundstage. Also, as of right now, there are no recievers that are capable of decoding the HD audio formats (Dolby Digital Plus, DD TrueHD, DTS-HD, Uncompressed PCM). I believe there were some at CES.

-Brad

[Peench]

Jon Liu had the HDA1 which he sold to me when he got the HDDVD add on. He also has the PS3 so he can comment on all of them.

[BrewCityUpstart]

The 360 add-on is ok. I wasn't as impressed with it as I thought I would be. Maybe too much hype?

[D_Litch]

They compared the addon to a stand alone HD-DVD player. And they used the PS3 for the Blu-ray tests. I would never let a magazine shift my opinion in buying something, I just figured I should ask the HD ballers here their opinion. And I thank you for those opinions

I don't have to worry about this for a few more months, I just thought it best to post a thread before my feeble mind forgot.

[Fragmintz]

I have never seen an HD or Blue Ray movie. From what I have seen though of HD broadcasts ... I can never watch football the same again.

I did hear (in an issue of my favorite magazine ... ahem ... Wired), that someone was working on a dual format player, so as to end this nonsensical Blue Ray v. DVD war. Oh silly humans, anything to fight and make a buck over.

[D_Litch]

LG is working on a dual format player. It will only cost $1,199.99.

[dmiller68]

Originally Posted by Fragmintz

I have never seen an HD or Blue Ray movie. From what I have seen though of HD broadcasts ... I can never watch football the same again.

I did hear (in an issue of my favorite magazine ... ahem ... Wired), that someone was working on a dual format player, so as to end this nonsensical Blue Ray v. DVD war. Oh silly humans, anything to fight and make a buck over.

Yeah, LG is trying...

LG to End HD Format Wars

[GoatMother]

The LG is already out at CompUSA for the bargain price of $1200!

Screw that just buy the PS3 and A2 if you really need both sides and you'll be completely covered for less!

[D_Litch]

Yeah! I beat DMiller by a few seconds.

[CamDawg]

D,
I had the Toshiba HD-A1 (stand alone), which I sold after buying the MS HD_DVD add-on. I also have a PS3 that I have used exclusively for Blu-Ray.

Here are my observations:
1. Video Quality on all three are a wash -- depending on the source, I can't tell a difference. Video quality on the HD-A1 and the HD-DVD add-on are the exact same (I did A and B comparisions using the same movies before deciding to sell the HD-A1).
2. Audio quality is discernibly better with BD movies than with HD movies using the HD add-on. Something weird is happening with the HD add-on; volume is very low using the unit. With the HD-A1, I add analog outs and was able to take advantage of DD TrueHD if the title supported it. For both the HD-DVD add-on and the PS3, I am using optical out. I'm not an audio nut, but I prefer the sound from the PS3. HOWEVER -- I have not compared the same title on both BD and HD-DVD, so it could just be me preferring the sound of some of the BD movies over that of the HD-DVD ones.
3. The HD-DVD add-on is less frustrating to use than the HD-A1. The add-on starts quickly and has never locked on me on a troublesome disc; the HD-A1 had trouble with a couple of NetFlix discs that were less than perfect and took FOREVER to power on and load a disc.
4. I prefer the Xbox 360 remote to the Toshiba HD-A1 remote; however, I have a Harmony universal, so the remote for the two HD-DVD drives is kind of moot. Here's where it's not moot. The PS3 doesn't have an IR input; it will only work with bluetooth wireless, so my Harmony will not work with it. I couldn't naturally adjust to using the PS3 controller for movies, so I had to fork out $25 for the PS3 remote. If using your IR universal remote remote is important to you, the PS3 is going to cause you some frustration.

All things being equal, I am very satisfied with both the 360 HD-DVD add-on and the PS3 as a BD player. I think if you can get past the low volume on the add-on and lack of advanced audio formats (at least until/if MS releases HDMI), it is a good purchase. The main reason I decided to buy a PS3 was because of the availability of movies (especially Disney) that are exclusive to BD.

[Jon Liu]

Okay, here are my thoughts, and like Peench pointed out, I had the Toshiba HD-A1, currently own the HD-DVD add-on and the PS3.

Picture quality-wise? The HD-DVD add-on was equally impressive to me when compared to the HD-A1. Given that the HD-A1 was connected via HDMI and the add-on is component, that's saying a lot. The HD-A1 was very slightly better in terms of sharpness, but that wasn't by much. Color rendition, I feel is just a smidge better with the add-on. Now, both are compromises in one department but, the honest truth is, they were very close in both regards. As for the PS 3, judging a Blu-ray to an HD-DVD is kind of hard but, from the current HD-DVDs and Blu-rays that I own, more Blu-rays that I bought have better overall picture quality that a lot of the HD-DVDs. But, again, I have to say, not by much and like it was pointed out before, it TRULY depends on the source material. So it all ends up being a wash and your deciding factor will be price and software preference.

I do not know what the guys at Wired are talking about and honestly, it also depends on your equipment. I'm watching material on a 92" screen. Now, if you watch on something a lot smaller and how things are set up can vary the outcome DRASTICALLY.

Audio Quality-wise? HD-DVD add-on does a pretty good job, overall but, doesn't quite hold it's own compared to standalone players and more specifically due to the limitations of the optical cable transporting the decoded information. That's not to say that the HD-DVD add-on sound quality isn't an improvement over what you might already have, because it certainly is. The difference is just a tad less noticeable.

The HD-A1, when I had it, was hooked up via HDMI and I got to experience Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD in it's full glory. Now, it's true that no A/V Receivers out there currently decode these so the player is doing the processing but, even when Receivers will be able to process these signals natively, the difference will be minimal. There's just a level of spatialness and open-ness that you achieve through passing through either HDMI or Multichannel Analog Out.

And for the topper, I will give the PS3 and Blu-ray the Nod here because of their source material. Not because of the decoding capabilities but a good majority of titles out there on Blu-ray support Uncompressed LPCM. What's the difference you may ask? Dolby True HD is a lossless format but, that differs from uncompressed. It's lossless to the extent that ALL the information is still there but, they basically "Zip" the whole file up to make it fit into a smaller space. Originally, Dolby Digital and DTS signals lossed information in the encoding process AND were compressed to fit into a small, compact space. Now, with Uncompressed LPCM audio, neither is happening. All the information is still there AND it's not being "Zipped" up to save on space.

What does that mean exactly? Well the more processing/decoding/work which is required to get the sound out, the more chances the information is lost or degraded. Ultimately, from my point of view, the Uncompressed LPCM sounds phenomenal and at this point only Blu-ray Disks are utilizing this...

My point in all this is that the HD-DVD add-on is a FANTASTIC value at $200. As you step up, you're going to get a bit better overall quality, from the HD-DVD add-on to the HD-A1/HD-A2 or whatever is in that price range, then to the PS 3, in terms of quality. Now, I do have to emphasize again, the $200 pricepoint is a FANTASTIC value to be able to jump into a High Definition format of some sort.

Should you worry about what the guys are Wired said? Absolutely not. From more guys who know what they're talking about (here at PGL), Home Theater is where we started our interest and met each other, gaming came afterwards.

On a side note, last night was one of the first times I went through and watched a regular DVD, in it's entirety, in a while and I can honestly tell you, you start to get used to the level of quality from HD-DVDs and Blu-rays and while you stop noticing it as much as in the beginning, going back to regular DVD was sooooooooo sooooo very hard...