Big decision coming up...

[blars]

Okay, as a relative newbie to the "real job" world, I need some advice.

I am currently working at the newspaper here in Omaha, doing some web development, web application development, system administration, etc. I was brought in to replace a guy that would be retiring in a few years (needless to say, he hasn't retired yet). We have had complete turnover of our database admins and other developers. I have excellent job security, because no one else knows the systems. Pay is sub par, basically because my title is Applications Specialist, so they don't have to pay me for the Programmer/Developer/System Admin title.

I have been looking for another job for the past 2 months for the same reason that everyone else has left (poor management, pay, etc). The new people don't seem to be grasping the environment either, which makes it even more difficult for the 2 of us "original" people who are left.

I've had 3-4 interviews, one being this week that went really well. I have been told that I have the upper hand, and it's between me and another guy. This place has better pay, better benefits, NO ON-CALL, and is a 10 minute drive instead of a 30 minute drive.

Soooo...for those of you with more job experience and whatnot, have you guys found yourselves sticking through the same jobs, or cutting bait when it seems like it's not going to get any better? I've been at this job for 2.5 years right out of college, so it'll be the first time I've quit a full-time job.

Anyway, guess I'm just writing cause the situation is kinda freakin me out.

[Peench]

You have to be true to yourself. If you are not enjoying the job you are currently in and the promises that were made are not panning out you owe it to yourself to work somewhere else. I'm not suggesting job hopping and it does not look like that's what you are doing. But what I am suggesting is that you sit down and think about the things that are important to you and figure out what your goals are and where you want to be in 5, 10 and 15 years. Then determine how you can make them happen. If it requires going elsewhere, then go.

The bottom line though is that you have to be true to yourself. If you are not enjoying what you are doing it doesn't matter how much you are or aren't getting paid, you will be unhappy and it will spill over into other things.

Go for the new job if it is offered to you. BUT, don't burn your bridges. You never know you might bump into the people you meet and work with at a prior job.

[dmiller68]

Peench is making a good point... Never ever ever burn your bridges the Tech world is too small. I have changed jobs several times since I left my long term job. It looks like this for me:

Boeing: 9 years (quit)
Microsoft: 2 years (quit)
vJungle: 2 years (layoff)
Giftcertifcates.com: 3.5 years (layoff)
Mercent: 1 year (quit)
Twango: hum... still here

I think there are a number of reasons to leave a company and money shouldn't be one unless it is a lot more (when I left Boeing this was the reason). Make sure you are leaving because more growth opportunities, company upside opportunities, lifestyle improvements. Remember when it comes to better management it could be just as bad in the new company and assume it will. It should not be the only reason you are leaving. Remember most companies will ask you the following question why are you leaving have a good answer and it should never include I hate the management at the other company.

[AZRaiderH8r]

I agree. I think if you do the old "pro's and con's" list, you'll find yourself being drawn to the new job. I've worked at 2 places in the last 14 years, and it was tough for me to leave the first one after 6 years. But, I was feeling some of the same things that you're feeling now, and I only wish that I had made the decision sooner. It's a big decision to make, but it sounds like you've really thought it out.

[Quo]

Hey man,

Don't let it freak you out. You've done your part there. Sounds like it's time to look for something better. You're far from job-hopping at this point, trust me. Do what's right for. Trust me... no one's looking out for you but you!

Good luck man! You'll make the right decision.

[KEEZY]

Good luck man! You should challenge the other guy to a dual in COD2. You'd be CEO in no time!

I find myself doing that same thing that you do... you think you aren't sure of what you want to do, but in talking it out, it's clear you've already made up your mind b/c it is the best choice. It's hard to go because you think it might get better, but it sounds like it won't. Move to something better... you won't regret it. If anything, you'll regret not trying something.

[blars]

Thanks for the advice guys. Bottom line, I think I have a bigger opportunity to keep learning at the new place. They are just getting on their feet themselves (I'd be the 4th in the IT department).

The biggest thing that would hold me back right now is the one guy I've worked with the is supposed to be retiring soon. I guess you could say he's put 2.5 years of work into me, and I just feel bad making him go through that with someone new (especially given my boss's track record with hiring new people...except for me, of course). He's been there for 36 years now! But I guess he even says he should have quit 10 years ago. Just a lot of different ropes being pulled in opposite directions I guess.

And dmiller, I actually applied at giftcertificates.com here in Omaha. They supposedly "have me at the top of their list" when a new position opens.

Again guys, thanks for the advice.

[NuclearCujo]

Blars... never ever hold yourself back for someone else. Although loyalty is an admirable trait.. in careers you do what is best for you... While you are still young, change jobs if the chance for opportunity and training are better. I have changed several jobs because advancement was available by the change. I do what I have to do for my family.

[ZoomZoom71]

Not sure if you've done this yet, as I didn't see it mentioned, but have you talked w/ the present employer and expressed your concerns? I suppose you'd have to approach it delicately, as you don't want to let yourself be tagged as a "flight risk". But, you have been trained to take this guy's place, so they seem to be wanting YOU to do the job. Well, at some point, you're gonna have to make a decision about where you want to go. But, in the spirit of not burning bridges, you may want to give the current employer a chance to "compete" for your employment. Whether that is now, or after you take over for the other guy, is up to you. But, the employer has put themselves in a position of relying on you to do a job, so it's of great importance to keep you happy, so to speak. Know what I mean?

[CamDawg]

Blars,
Much like the other guys have said, it's a hard decision to leave. I've only been out of college in the working world for 13.5 years. I'm on my third (fourth if you count a little foray into sales) in that time. The easiest to leave for a variety of reasons (the most important being that it wasn't my line of work) was my sales job after four months. Leaving the Navy and my last job at the National Technology Transfer Center were both very difficult for a variety of reasons. What has provided me with the incentive to make both decisions to leave were a desire to be doing something else. Sometimes one is driven to change jobs by career incentives (more opportunity, better pay, better intangibles, better working environment); sometimes one does it for personal reasons (lower pay but more time with the family). Whatever the reasons, someone usually knows in their heart when he's reached that point where he's ready to move on. If you feel that, you are probably at that point where you're ready to go, but I think Eric also offers very good advice. If you're not committed to moving on, I think his advice sounds like a good path to take.

However, if you are just staying there because of the time they've invested in you, that is probably a mistake. Staying where you are just to avoid letting folks there down will lead to bitterness on your part, which won't be good for you or the newspaper company.
Just to echo the advice of the others, don't burn the bridges when you go. Be gracious for the opportunity right out of college and be sure when explaining why that you're doing this for the positive reasons you've expressed; leave the negatives such as low potential for growth, low pay, short timer who just won't leave, etc out of it -- they won't be able to adddress those and it will just lead to a bad taste in everyone's mouths.

Good Luck!

[Crippler]

Wow, a lot of great advice. I have been with my current employer for almost 10 yrs now. They are pretty good at staying competitive with salaries in the area. Going with what Zoom said, I would talk to your HR dept and see what they can offer you. Salary.com is a good resource for checking out what other area businesses are offering for wages, etc. in your line of work. Print out all the job descriptions you feel you are preforming on a daily basis. Then use those when you talk to HR or your boss. My dept & I have already did the research for what we actually do vs. what are job descriptions are and how salaries compare. Hopefully the HR dept here will work with us on this. If not, well I may be using the advice here as well. If your current employer totally shuts you down then I think you know what you need to do to take care of #1.

[Wondermonkey]

BLars, follow your heart. Job security isn't worth much if you are unhappy.

I'm in your same position, although I don't really have much job security where I'm at, but it's falling apart from the inside.

It's completely terrifying starting a new gig but that wears off in a few days, and then you'll wonder what you stressed over.

Good luck man.

[dmiller68]

And dmiller, I actually applied at giftcertificates.com here in Omaha. They supposedly "have me at the top of their list" when a new position opens.

Just send me a PM if you want me to help you out there. I still stay in touch with the people that reported to me there. As well as a couple of the devs and the SQL manager... The company has had a lot of term oil in it's 7 years or so. Lot's of CEO's, CFO's and boat loads of layoffs. At the same time they have finally pulled themselves in to the profitable stand at least that's my understanding.

[blars]

dmill, thanks for the offer.

And, I'll have to say I'm not much of a bridge burner...guess I'm too "nice".

Yeah, I've talked to the head of IT over lunch a few months ago when we had the last mass exodus...brought up some concerns and whatnot that haven't been addressed. I got a pretty decent raise (15 percent) about 2 months ago, but that still puts be about 30 percent less than similar jobs to mine pay elsewhere. Right now, I think I could go in and get maybe half the raise I am really looking for, but I don't' know if its worth it at this point.

It has come to my attention today that the last "Application Specialist" that has been there since I started will be moving to another department...and guess who gets to help in splitting the workload? I think I just keep finding more excuses to leave.

Again, thanks for the support and suggestions. I am supposed to know by early next week so I'll let you all know what happens.

[laxgod]

I've always felt that for young programmers it's important that they change jobs a few times earlier on in their career. I think by switching jobs you end up learning alot of new techniques that you wouldn't have otherwise. By only seeing how one company does things you might be severly short changing yourself in the long run. I also think that generally speaking that move to your second job can be a serious financial boon. The normal raises you receive never seem to add up to what other companies are willing to offer for people with several years of experience.

[blars]

That's one of the big things I would look forward to at the new place. I have been doing C# and ASP.NET with sql server backends. This new place I'd be doing some VB.NET, and get to do a lot more with sql from the sound of it.