Drill our oil petition

[dmiller68]

Originally Posted by Thornes70

As for the price of what we pay for gas at the pump being tied into amount vs. demand - U.S. driving has actually declined by 2% since it started going up like this, yet prices are also going up at a fast rate - does that make any sense?

It's called China and India their consumption has sky rocketed. Which means we start paying the price. My wife does a lot of research in the oil / gas prices (she works for a truck builder). There is a lot of oil speculation going on which also is driving up prices.

[Thornes70]

While you have a point about China & India using more, it still doesn't account for the price inflation here in the US when you add in the quarterly profit margins of oil companies; the numbers don't add up.

[Quo]

Originally Posted by dmiller68

That's a legitimate reason to own one and I would assume you will start passing a gas surcharge on to the customer. I understand it but the person that drives her QX56 should be shot as shes uses it to take her kids to school and run around town. Destroying more of the natural environment to feed this obsession with giant cars I don't feel helps anything.

A couple of people have made these statements here at the site about SUV drivers being "irresponsible" or "should be shot". I think these types of inflammatory statements are pretty hilarious and self-centered. As an SUV owner, I have my own "legit" excuse to own one. Trouble is, everyone can find a legit excuse. The idea of one person or a few persons deciding who has a legit excuse and who doesn't seems pretty off kilter.

Everyone can certainly voice their own opinion about who should have access to this car or that, but everyone should just remember that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. So if anyone wants to complain about anyone, even Mrs. QX56 or Hummer, owning an SUV, they should be doing all the little things... like keeping their thermostat a little lower or higher, making sure their house is well insulated (with totally green insulation, of course!), not filling up their swimming pool to conserve water, not taking their kids to the go-cart track, using all recyclable products to limit waste production, turning off all their computers, xboxes, etc. rather than leaving them running, etc.

I'm all for helping people to remember to conserve energy and save the environment. But tossing around inflammatory remarks only ticks people off and makes people look hypocritical. Everyone can be better at preserving what's been provided for us here.

[Causedawg 83]

Originally Posted by dmiller68

...the person that drives her QX56 should be shot as shes uses it to take her kids to school and run around town. Destroying more of the natural environment to feed this obsession with giant cars I don't feel helps anything.

Pretty harsh statement, don't you think?

You have to weigh your options: Save money on gas and "save the environment" by driving a little hybrid, or make safety for yourself and kids a priority and drive a larger vehicle. My wife prefers little compact cars so she drives a Ford Focus, but I sorta wish she'd drive a small SUV or something. It'd make me worry less when we start having kids.

[Epyon MX]

Originally Posted by Causedawg 83

Pretty harsh statement, don't you think?

You have to weigh your options: Save money on gas and "save the environment" by driving a little hybrid, or make safety for yourself and kids a priority and drive a larger vehicle. My wife prefers little compact cars so she drives a Ford Focus, but I sorta wish she'd drive a small SUV or something. It'd make me worry less when we start having kids.

Frank (and probably somewhat jerkish) reply:

Such BS. Cars of all sizes are so much safer these days. Believe me. I've worked in crash testing at Toyota. And besides many smaller cars come with curtain airbags and many safety factors that bigger cars done have. There's nothing that makes driving a smaller car that much more dangerous than an SUV.

Sorry. I've heard this argument a lot, so you touched a nerve there. I just tire of people using the safety of children as a shield for their arguments. But since you brought them up, the children you are seeking to protect by wrapping them in a huge steel gas-guzzling cage are going to live long enough to live in a world where the environment is collapsing from those same huge vehicles.

[Causedawg 83]

Good. At least they'll live to see it. Maybe you believe that small cars are safer these days, but I'm here to tell you that no matter what safety features you put in a little Ford Focus, I'm still safer in my 1/2 ton pickup. Those safety features put in a small car can be put in a big truck or an SUV as well, and with the extra added mass of the larger vehicle providing greater safety, I'm all for them.


Furthermore, using safety of small children as a shield for our arguments is rediculous. They're children, and parents should do anything necessary to protect them. I sure as hell would. To hell with using it as an excuse to drive what we want, there's some real truth behind it, and I'd be willing to bet that there are some parents here who would agree.

[KEEZY]

Even if bigger cars are safer, that is only because most of the cars are bigger. If everyone shifted to smaller cars, having a small car wouldn't be as risky. I'm not saying everyone should move to small cars, but just pointing out the situation. Honestly, it's almost like an arms race. Gotta get a bigger car, so I can be protected in an accident against other big cars.

Cars in the 70's and 80's were steel tank-boats, so it was hard to shift the paradigm to making cars out of plastic, like Daewoo does (jokes!). I think we're kind of in the same situation.

I keep hearing that this is just the market working itself out. The people who want huge gas guzzlers are certainly feeling it now. That will drive some to hybrids, smaller cars, or moving to have a shorter commute. Not to mention they are sucking up the gas, and driving us closer to running low on gas. This will hopefully create an even bigger drive for alternative fuels.

Unfortunately, everyone is a hypocrite. I get pretty annoyed when I see a 16 year old kid driving a pristine huge pickup truck. It's never dirty, so it's not like he needs it for construction or work. But then again, I have a projector with a 72" screen, 3 next-gen game consoles, and a whole lot of movies and other useless electronics. I'm not a movie critic, or a producer, or a professional gamer, yet I have all of these excessive things as well.

[Epyon MX]

Originally Posted by Causedawg 83

Good. At least they'll live to see it. Maybe you believe that small cars are safer these days, but I'm here to tell you that no matter what safety features you put in a little Ford Focus, I'm still safer in my 1/2 ton pickup. Those safety features put in a small car can be put in a big truck or an SUV as well, and with the extra added mass of the larger vehicle providing greater safety, I'm all for them.

But it's your big vehicle that puts me in danger. What did I ever do to you Cause? Let's invert it. By driving a large SUV to protect your children, you're putting other children in danger. I understand the need for safety, but the choices that people make have an effect greater than themselves.

Here is my case:
The IIHS runs crash tests and assigns rankings. Just about every small car comes with side air bags these days giving them a "Good" rating for Side Impact. But the Ford Explorer, even with side airbags received only an "Average" for the same test. Size is not always a good indicator of safety.

And there are new tests by the IIHS and NHTSA that have a worst case side impact using an SUV sled. It weighs twice as much and is higher up. New cars are being built to survive impacts by SUVs. I've seen this test run and it's brutal. But it's amazing when you go and check the crash dummies and all of them are "alive".

[dmiller68]

Originally Posted by Quo

Everyone can certainly voice their own opinion about who should have access to this car or that, but everyone should just remember that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. So if anyone wants to complain about anyone, even Mrs. QX56 or Hummer, owning an SUV, they should be doing all the little things... like keeping their thermostat a little lower or higher, making sure their house is well insulated (with totally green insulation, of course!), not filling up their swimming pool to conserve water, not taking their kids to the go-cart track, using all recyclable products to limit waste production, turning off all their computers, xboxes, etc. rather than leaving them running, etc.

I can throw the rocks and do so all the time... I'm sorry to offend all you people driving your tanks... They are destroying our infrastructure more wear and tear on the roads, etc. Then there is the side aspect of using more gas. My point is if you choose to drive a car with crappy gas mileage you chose that when you bought it. I bought a hybrid SUV (32mpg) the last time around because I was tired of paying for premium and only getting 15mpg. I bought a energy efficient home, and picked out green appliances. I shutdown devices, turn off lights, etc... I try to do my best to lower my carbon footprint.

So yes I'm very opinionated on this subject. I feel sorry for people like my dad who does require driving a poor mileage truck (he's a carpenter). I also feel sorry for the big truck drivers, esp independents. I do not feel sorry for anyone that choses to drive a giant car because they want to then complain about high gas prices.

[Wondermonkey]

Originally Posted by KEEZY

Even if bigger cars are safer, that is only because most of the cars are bigger. If everyone shifted to smaller cars, having a small car wouldn't be as risky. I'm not saying everyone should move to small cars, but just pointing out the situation. Honestly, it's almost like an arms race. Gotta get a bigger car, so I can be protected in an accident against other big cars.

Exactly. I'm not protecting anyone from my Civic, I'm protecting them from the inconsiderate clem driving a Hummer because his wife won't have sex with him. jokes. I'm also protecting them from a Boeing, because those things rip through all kinds of cars, so I've started staying away from landing strips. It was tough at first, but now it's much more manageable.

I just pictured me telling Danger she should drive an SUV because I worry about her in a hybrid. I just imagined the "look" and it made me laugh.

Also, if you want safety, you don't need to look "big." Get a Volvo, the gas mileage isn't that bad and their safety rating is ridiculous. Even the older ones.

[Epyon MX]

This is how Tarantino got the idea for the movie, Deathproof. He was planning on buying a new car and was thinking about getting a Volvo because of their safety. His friend pointed out to him that he could just take any car and "deathproof" it for a couple grand. And the rest is history.


If you're really concerned with safety, then install a rollcage and wear helmets. :P But people want safety without inconvenience.

[Wondermonkey]

Originally Posted by Epyon MX

If you're really concerned with safety, then install a rollcage and wear helmets. :P But people want safety without inconvenience.

Not me, I love safety and inconvenience, tell me more!

I understand why larger SUVs are attractive to many people, and if you need the space, I'm not knocking you. I don't know why anyone needs a Hummer though unless you're in the Army.

[Causedawg 83]

Originally Posted by Epyon MX

But it's your big vehicle that puts me in danger. What did I ever do to you Cause? Let's invert it. By driving a large SUV to protect your children, you're putting other children in danger. I understand the need for safety, but the choices that people make have an effect greater than themselves.

Here is my case:
The IIHS runs crash tests and assigns rankings. Just about every small car comes with side air bags these days giving them a "Good" rating for Side Impact. But the Ford Explorer, even with side airbags received only an "Average" for the same test. Size is not always a good indicator of safety.

And there are new tests by the IIHS and NHTSA that have a worst case side impact using an SUV sled. It weighs twice as much and is higher up. New cars are being built to survive impacts by SUVs. I've seen this test run and it's brutal. But it's amazing when you go and check the crash dummies and all of them are "alive".

You're right, Epyon. I've put you in danger. Watch out people, I'm out there, and I've got a truck.




Lets say we get rid of larger vehicles. Alright, now that we've gotten rid of larger vehicles, how do we handle interstate, intercity, and inner city freight delivery? I just stepped out of my office and saw large vans and trucks all over the place. All of them were there to carry supplies, freight, trash, etc. all over town. What about protection from those large vehicles? Also, I drive my truck because I often use the truck bed to carry things around, things that won't fit in a car or even an SUV. I'd say that's a pretty good reason to have a truck. I don't need a 2 ton, so I don't drive one, I drive a 1/2 ton. Furthermore, what about families that are larger than 5? Small cars and SUV's are not going to allow them to get to any one place all together at any time. They need vans, expeditions, etc. Do they need to suffer for the common good? If not, do they get to be safer in larger cars than the rest of us just because they're a larger family? I know I know, larger vehicles are not safer than smaller ones. Physics doesn't apply when you're on the road.

[Quo]

Originally Posted by dmiller68

I bought a hybrid SUV (32mpg) the last time around because I was tired of paying for premium and only getting 15mpg...

Holy smoke, man! That was like 6 months ago... what'd you do, run out of the dealership pointing at people who were driving the same vehicle you just traded in yelling, "you suck! you deserve to be shot!"?

I'm kidding, totally. It takes time though, people will come around. In my situation, I'm a little lost. I'd love to trade in my guzzler for something really efficient that will last. I just haven't pulled the trigger yet because I haven't found a really good option for me. Plus, I keep hearing that there are some really great options coming in the next 2-3 years. As a result, I'm considering a lease. Anyway, that's off on a tangent. I think Keezy's right on... the market does have to sort itself out. A big question over the next several years will be what the dealers will end up doing with all the huge SUV's that are getting traded in and are essentially worthless.