My Microsoft Rep doesn't own a 360!

[MrCoolDale]

Yeah, you read that right. My Microsoft Representative, the one that comes into the store, swaps out our Red Ringed display unit every so often (three times so far) gives us the new demo disc, supplies us with free xbox live and some points, doesn't own a 360. You may ask why, I know I did. He explained it to me very simply. First lets look at the different versions.

The Arcade and Pro bundles are the exact same console with one difference: what it comes packaged with. The Pro has a silver accent DVD Drive, the arcade's is white (which I prefer). The Arcade has a 256mb memory card, wireless controller, composite cables and 5 arcade games. The Pro has a 20gb hdd, wireless controller, composite and component cables, ethernet cable, headset, and two games (Forza Motorsports 2, Marvel Ultimate Alliance), which are both crap.

The Halo 3 Edition is the Halo green, with gold accents on the hdd and DVD drive. 20gb hdd, wireless controller, play & charge cable, rechargeable battery, composite and component cables, ethernet cable and a headset.

The Elite package is nothing terribly different from the Pro or Arcade other than the color. Solid Matte finish Black console. It has a 120gb hdd, wireless controller, composite cables, component cables, HDMI cable, ethernet cable, headset and the same two games as the pro bundle. All the same hardware specs otherwise.

A little secret is that these consoles will no longer be bundled with any games after the holidays. Every store got a shipment this week of the consoles bundled with games. These are to be the last allocation of them. The prices will remain the same with:
Arcade: $279.99 usd
Pro: $349.99 usd
Halo 3: $399.99 usd
Elite: $449.99 usd

Now lets look at perks.
The arcade has no perks other than the obvious price reduction. It's the most affordable console. $30 more than a wii, and it's next-gen with HD upscaling to 1080p.

The pro has a 20gb hdd, plenty sufficient for all your games saves, a ton of demos and a lot of music. I have yet to run out of room. Again, the games is comes with are crap. However, the HD Component cables bundled with it are about $50.00 usd on their own. So that, along with the $99.99 usd hdd in there, it's a great deal.

The Halo edition is my personal favorite version, and not just because it is for Halo. I like the color, but it comes with a play and charge kit, a matching controller, and it is just a better system. More on that later.

The Elite has 100 more gigs of space and it's a little bit quieter. While it generates more heat, the paint on the system holds onto that heat a little more. so it runs about the same in that aspect. What people aren't told just yet, is that the Elite (contracts have already been signed) is to act as a certified, licensed, TiVo in the future. With the ability to record live TV, movies, etc, that extra 100 gigs will come in handy.

Return/Failure rate:
Arcade/Pro (remember, they are the same thing):
30% RROD (YOWZA!)
Elite (Only slight changes in hardware specs)
23% RROD (That PS3 looks a little better than it did last night, eh?)
Halo Edition (Hold onto your hats)
0% RROD

That's right, the Halo Edition has NEVER been recorded to have been sent back for the RROD without it being user error. Sure, you have a 3 year warranty, but it's so easy to void that (intercoolers will void your warranty). You see, the XBox 360 has that famous 72nm chipset. The Halo Edition has the much coveted 64nm chipset. This produces significantly less heat, but it's just as powerful. It has a larger heatsink in a better place, more thermal pasting (open yours up, most of the pros look like they just flicked a booger onto the processor), a better fan unit and thinner wafers. Overall, this system produces less heat and moves that heat out of there faster. Not to mention, it's significantly quieter and doesn't scratch discs due to the new drive in it. Microsoft doesn't make this system anymore because it cost them too much to produce it. Microsoft ships them at $300.00 usd, and they still take a cut at almost $500.00 usd. According to MS, this system costs $775.00 usd to manufacture.

So, why doesn't my rep own a 360? Because he had his break down 4 times and doesn't want to buy a halo edition since he already spent $449.99 usd on his elite. So, he just sold his Elite and decided to not even try anymore.

Doesn't that suck? Microsoft has decided they would rather work on the same system four or five times, rather than take a small cut in systems manufacturing.

I just wish I had the money for a Halo Edition.

Any questions, just post them here. I hope I hit all of information.

[BrewCityUpstart]

Dude, I have no clue who the motherfock you are, but that was one of the most well-written posts here on the 360. Points to you.

[namehater]

you know anything about elite design flaws? i dont know many people with them, but peench and i both had problems with our controllers, his controller seemed to wander on its on (like the axis's werent aligned correctly) and my controller had something wrong in the headphone jack (just a slight wiggle and watch out for the static)

it does suck that M$ sucks, but what are ya gonna do, they arent the top system because of their flawless design, they are top (for me) because of their games

[Crippler]

Nice write up.

It's 90nm and 65nm. Not 72 or 64, those sizes do not exist. The current revision of the Arcade and Pro are the same as the Halo edition now and basically have been since Sept. Both sporting the 65nm CPU...only. The GPU is still 90nm and producing the same amount of heat as it ever did. Next yr we'll see another rev that includes a 65nm GPU. Until then, a few other tweaks have taken place to help with the RRoD. New heatsinks, better fans and the use of epoxy to help stop the chips from breaking their solder points to the mobo.

So, any SKU of the 360 has basically the same odds of producing a RRoD right now. The Halo edition isn't special no longer. Unless it has a Bubble shield to protect itself.

Didn't we have one or two peeps on PGL that had faulty Halo editions?

[Wondermonkey]

I love how Crippler stores this information in his brain and then BLAM, lays it down.

I don't give a monkey's red ass what failure rates are anymore, although I used to. Life's too short to worry about another company's business plan.

The only thing that matters to me anymore is that in the last 24 hours there were 1,730,798 Halo 3 Games played. That means I have good odds of finding a fun game to join between the hours of 9 p.m. and midnight.

[Causedawg 83]

Awesome write-up. It would be interesting to see the Elite act as a DVR. Maybe somewhat impractical (IMHO), but interesting.

[MrCoolDale]

There are still differences between the Halo Edition and the others. I may have gotten the sizes wrong, my apologies on that, and thank you for the correction. However, my MS rep carries with him a booklet on all the tech specs of the different versions so he can teach us the differences. Those failure rates are according to Microsoft. I believe the return rate of the Halo Edition was 2% with a 96% (of that 2%) rate of user error. This system is more susceptible to jarring.

Namehater, I really can't comment on the issues with the controllers. The only thing I know about the controllers are my personal experiences and the things I have read online. All that my rep has told me is the normal things. i.e. the 360 Controller is an award winning controller for it's design and it's connectivity to the 360 with the lowest lag time. Any issues with the headset port or axis calibration, that's new to me. I use a wireless headset, which I have never had any problems with.

What I was saying about the intercoolers in my post...
Your XBox 360 logs everything that gets connected to the system and anything it does to the system. The Nyko intercoolers with the power connect through port is the bane of microsoft's existence. While the system doesn't log the actual intercooler, given that the IC doesn't send an information signal to the 360 to say it's there, it does log the slight power drain. There is, minimal though it may be, a very minute amount of power drawn from the power supply to the intercooler that doesn't reach the 360. Your 360 will log this difference in power. When you send your 360 back for the RRoD, they will pull up a report of everything it has ever done. When they see that it lost some power, they will check that against known peripherals and they can see exactly how much power the Nyko IC draws. Deduction, you hooked something up to your XBox that changed the running environment.

I have had at least four customers come in to buy a new 360 because MS sent their system back to them with a letter stating:
Too bad.
So Sad,
Your Dad.

So, don't hook them things onto your system. They will void your warranty and MS is known for holding to that. You have 3 years, don't mess that up.

[namehater]

wonder when a lawsuit will pop up against Nyko or whoever makes the intercooler

[Justintiime]

I don't believe it. Even if the 360 could log power loses or spikes, for MS to be able to go "oh, yeah....you had an Intercooler because of this power drop" and drop your warranty, is rediculous.

I haven't met a salesman in my life that knew 100% what he was talking about, and I talk to salesman daily.

[MrCoolDale]

I've seen the letters with that people get from their voided warranty. I can assure you, it has happened. Aside from that, when I was asking my MS rep about trying to cool my system down without ripping it open, I asked what he thought about the Nyko IC. He informed me about it voiding the warranty. This was a few weeks before I talked to some people it happened to.

I should point out that my MS rep is much more knowledgeable about his products that my Nintendo rep is about hers, or my sony rep is about his. I take no stock in what my Nintendo rep says. She tried to quote some specs to me, and when I pointed out that she was wrong (by showing her on the Wii Box) she now avoids me. she also tried to tell me that the DS Lite will play original gameboy games... yeah...

I usually don't listen to most of what my reps say, but this guy knows his stuff. Plus, like I said, he carries the documentation with him. And, just remember, I don't deal with salesmen. I am the salesman. I only deal with techs from these companies.

[Wondermonkey]

Originally Posted by Justintiime

I don't believe it. Even if the 360 could log power loses or spikes, for MS to be able to go "oh, yeah....you had an Intercooler because of this power drop" and drop your warranty, is rediculous.

They void your warranty in writing, but when mine died, it had a Nyko cooler on it, I told them that, and I still had a box shipped to me that day. MS is basically taking back any failed unit when they extended the warranty. If one of the "outsourcers" tells you they won't take it back, just ask to speak to someone else.

I also don't believe those numbers because most of those units are the same, there'd be no reason to make a distinction between them. Salesmen sell, and they also know how to talk.

[Crippler]

AnandTech: Microsoft's Xbox 360 goes 65nm: Falcon Dissection and Power Consumption

[Peench]

Great information - thanks for getting the discussion started!

In reviewing the boxes for the Arcade v. the Pro, it appeared to me that they indicate the Arcade does not play BC titles? Am I reading that wrong? The little display thing on the side of all of the boxes showing the differences mentioned BD for all other versions, but NOT for the Arcade version. Am I crazy or is this true? Not that I really care, but that might be a difference some are concerned about. Serren just got an Arcade version last month, I wonder if he can test it out for us.

[MadBryan]

Whats your system of choice dikky? Looking at your gamertag history shows you haven't played much 360. Just curious where your coming from.

[Lord Geoff]

It's kinda strange that your rep would risk his job by sharing internal failure statistics and contract information above his pay grade. If he doesn't like his job, he should go and do something else somewhere else. I am pretty sure he is legally obligated to keep his trap shut on those things. Zoinks!

[MrCoolDale]

The Arcade Version doesn't play any XBox titles because of the lack of hard drive. You need the hdd to play any old titles. I don't fully understand why, since the XBox still receives updates without the hdd. If you put a 20gb or 120 gb onto the system, it'll play all the old titles.

Geoff, He has a legal obligation to share those statistics. Microsoft, as a whole, does. It's not legal to hide failure rates and such, so when confronted, someone at the company must comment. Microsoft happens to allow their reps to comment on these types of things.

Bryan, I have had my 360 for almost a year now, I just don't put a great deal of time on it. Mainly I play Halo 3, but a little bit of CoD4 and various other titles. I'm just not a hard core gamer like some on here. I'm not sure I understand what it is that you're asking though.

Crippler, thank you for the information. I actually printed some of that out and am going to ask my rep about it. I try not to argue with people about such things as it is just as easy for me to have the wrong information. So I'm not going to discredit anything. I actually do appreciate being corrected. I'd prefer to have the right information when talking to my customers.