Mac users

[BrewCityUpstart]

You'll love this.

[MadBryan]

I spy Tony Hawk in that pic. Funny post. funny cause its true.

[Wondermonkey]

Wow, PC users get so mad. I never realized how much it gets under people skins until i switched to a superior machine. I have to say, and you can't tell other mac users this or the cover be blown, but mac guys love seeing shit like that. It's like when you're fighting about something and the other person is getting real mad, and they have no basis for the argument and out of sheer desperation and lack of education, with sweat running down their forehead and their heartbeat showing in their neck, they yell:

Because it is! That's why!

And the other person, the one who's calm and isn't yelling is just sitting there as a wide self satisfying smile expands across their face because they know the other dude just snapped.

That's the feeling we get. It's nice.

Seriously though, PC guys should calm down. We need you alive, if you start dying off, then who will bag our groceries, collect our garbage, walk our dogs, and watch our children? Come on! We need you, stay healthy!*

Chillax!

Still, that is pretty funny, even though a 3rd grader apparently wrote and edited it. I did laugh though... I don't know what that says about me!

*100% sarcasm

[CamDawg]

Thanks for link, Brew. I just spent an hour digging through that dude's website. Some pretty funny stuff there.

I spent some time Wednesday trying to troubleshoot our PR person's MAC laptop (running OSX 10.3). She has been a MAC fanatic for years; she's another one of those who would have trouble finding her PC's on/off button, but the MAC is just so easy. I wish people like that took some time to actually learn what the hell they were doing so they didn't f things up so baddly (she also has a PC and routinely manages to mess that up regardless of how many user restrictions I put on her account). Her Adobe suite quit running after she applied a MAC update and then an Adobe update (she said both were deemed as important or necessary).

My troubleshooting ended with some dialogue that went like this:
Me: "Why don't you just roll back the update?"
Her: "Uh, you can't do that with a MAC unless you have done x (she rattles off some esoteric sounding procedure) to the hard drive. It's pretty complex to do."
Me: "Well if you need to do that periodically to the hard drive, don't you have some kind of task manager or script set up to do it automatically?"
Her: "Uh, I'm not sure what you mean. How does the computer do that kind of thing automatically? Compuetrs don't do that."
Me: "Kind of like I do on the PC sitting in front of you -- you know how it automatically backs up your files so you don't lose everything whenever you do something that you shoouldn't have (like click on the links in those phishing emails or hit the gopher with a hammer on the websites so you get some drive by malware). Or how it automatically defrags your hard drive every month and automatically scans weekly for whatever piece of malware you've managed to install on it. That is all done automatically through a task manager. I'm sure the Mac has to have something like that."
Her: "Apple's not about all of that technical computer stuff you're talking about. It's about being easy to use. I don't need to worry about all of that with my MAC."
Me: "How's that easy to use MAC working out for you in this case?"
Her: "This isn't the Apple's fault; this is Adobe's fault. It would be no different on a PC"
Me: "Well guess what; it's your lucky day -- you get to find out if it would work any differently on your PC. Since the MAC is your personal hardware, I can't spend anymore time trying to fix it. Oh by the way, while we were talking, I installed the updated to the Adobe Suite on your PC; it's working fine. See you later."

I've messed with both her MAC and a couple of students' personal Macbooks over the past year. There are some features that are pretty cool (and I love the design of Apple products), but overall I just don't get it. Nor do I get the whole MAC personality/lifestyle/arrogance thing. It's just a computer, folks. Having a MAC doesn't make you some kind of supreme being; in many cases it just makes you someone who can't figure out how to use a PC.

[MadBryan]

Don't poke the monkey!

[Jon Liu]

"Ever wonder how most Mac users are skinny?"

They say this as if it were a bad thing...

Interesting link, regardless.

[dmiller68]

CamDawg you hit the nail on the head.... If all the users in the world started using Macs we would be using club and rocks within 5 years. Even seasoned PC people forget how to do anything after 5 mins using a Mac. We have had a boatload of Mac wireless issues lately and there is no way to trouble shoot it. They just reboot and hope it works. I have never been a Mac guy however I think it has some coolness to it. However, I'll never switch because I'm not sure I can dumb down that far to use it. PC's maybe a pain in the butt but at least I can solve 99.8% of all issues I run into in 10-15 min and I can see what is going on.

[CamDawg]

D,
That's it exactly. When I try to troubleshoot a Mac, you can't find out what's going on. Maybe I just don't know where to look, but the users don't have any idea either. It just works... or it just doesn't work; there's no in between with what I've seen on a Mac. If it doesn't work, it seems to be next to impossible to figure out why and how to make it work because they've dumbed the O/S down that far. Maybe it's just job justification on my part, but the more time I've spent with Macs, the less desireable I find them (especially now that Vista is around for the PC).

[BrewCityUpstart]

Originally Posted by CamDawg

Thanks for link, Brew. I just spent an hour digging through that dude's website. Some pretty funny stuff there.
.

Ya, me n' him share a lot of the same viewpoints. It's the only wepabe I have consistantly visited for the last 5 years.

[BrewCityUpstart]

Originally Posted by Jon Liu

"Ever wonder how most Mac users are skinny?"

They say this as if it were a bad thing...

Interesting link, regardless.

In your case, he hit the nail on the head lol

[Epyon MX]

The OS isn't dumbed down. It's simple. There's a quotation by Einstein I like and it fits the Mac design philosophy, "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler."

Essentially, OS X makes things easy for the user. The result, at least for me, is much fewer problems. The problems that do surface (and there are problems on occasion), are generally very easy to troubleshoot. The trick is finding where things are on a Mac. And that isn't as hard as you think. They're not hidden, except by ignorance. If we all worked on Macs as the dominant OS and there the rogue few who worked on Windows then I imagine it would be hard for those who work on Macs almost exclusively to find the troubleshooting options on a Windows computer.

Another example of Mac vs. PC design philosophy that shows that Macs are not dumbed down is how the system's treat the user. Take for example, Microsoft Word. Bugs and annoyances aside, Word treats me like a gorram idiot. Selecting just a few letters or trying to copy a word with a space at the end will result in Word "trying" to be helpful and often selecting the entire word instead of what you did. It overrides your conscious dicision because it believes that you've made a mistake. Now this error occurs in all versions of Word (for Mac and PC), but it's a perfect example of Microsofts approach to the user and how I often feel when I'm using a PC. I know what I want to do, but the PC over-rides it or won't let me. With my Mac, it feels like the people who design the system are the people who use and love it. So there are kinds of tricks and neat little features that really show the extra thought. Kinda like how Bungie makes a game. They make a game that they're going to love and enjoy, not just one to meet fiscal goals.

One last thing is this: Most people I know who bash Macs never have used one, or worse have only used one for a few minutes. Mac is almost of victim of its own marketing. People assume that Macs are so simple that you should be able to use them instantly and have the exact same control and expertise with the Mac as they do with the PC they've been using for years. So they get all in a huff. That's not how it works. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to using a Mac. To learn everything I knew over again. But it was worth it in my eyes because I'm more efficient on a Mac (try switching Windows on a PC with alt-tab and try it on a Mac with Expose'). It's like learning a new language, at first its difficult but in the end you can find a new and more fluid way of speaking.

The debate wearies me, though. These debates will not change anyone's mind. I love my mac. If you want to use a PC that's your perogative.

[MadBryan]

Originally Posted by Epyon MX

that's your perogative.

Bobby Brown

[CamDawg]

Epyon, I do appreciate your perspective on this. And I suppose that the stuff I was trying to find would have been "findable" had I not been ignorant of the O/S. However, the first time I picked up Linux, I was able to find everything I was looking for relatively quickly. Whenever I had a problem, the "answer" seemed easier for me to find than it has been when I've troubleshot Macs.

They sure do look pretty, though.

[Crankbait]

I am a Mac user and I thought it was hilarious

Then again I have a Windows box and an Ubuntu machine in the basement, oh yeah and a RAQ4 Cobalt as well.

Seriously though you would not believe how long my Macs have been running on the same OS with no downtime. I have one that has been used for going on 9 years, that is a long ass time!

[lovekeiiy]

That site was funny. First thought I had was, "damn, this guy is pissed."

Some good info above though. I've been using PCs for about 13 years, since the bad ol' days of DOS and Windows 3.1. I have some limited time on Mac; just when I was going to UCSD since that is was they had in the student computer labs and what the marketing department I worked in there had as well. But I do know a few people who use them.

I haven't had the joy of trying to trouble shoot a program. I can open applications, use them and properly shut them down all the way, LOL. Most PC users leave the apps open because they don't realize that closing the window doesn't shut down the app.

I do find they're are easy to use and the programs, overall, run more realiable than compared the PC counter part. This is because the apple/mac has been so extremely single propreity, they don't have that legacy and mutliple hardware issues the pc face. For years and years, they only programs on the apple/mac were made only by apple/mac. There is a reason why there is only a small corner in the computer for macs.

Given this though, Apple is able to make sure the computers as intended. They software runs as intended.

Also, there isn't as much of a virus, malware, spyware risk as there is on the pc. It's simply a numbers game. How many PCs are being use compared the the mac.

The only knock I give the mac is the lack of software compared to the PC. Granted, there is a lot of crap for the pc. I'm far from a MS loyalist. I think most of their software is mediocer at best and use it because everything else is designed around it. Their OS don't seem to get more stable or efficient, they just try to either add more media crap, oir asthetics. Look at the hardware requirements for Vista and what is it really doing? That said, MS does make some pretty good hardware stuff though. I've always like their game pads (and game consols, LOL).

With all that said, I do recommend macs to people who ask me. I do tell them the system can be a bit pricey, but they're worth the money for the stablity and easy of use. Of course, there are not very computer literate people and far from any kind of hardcore pc gamer (they would never buy a gaming pc).

[dmiller68]

Originally Posted by lovekeiiy

Also, there isn't as much of a virus, malware, spyware risk as there is on the pc. It's simply a numbers game. How many PCs are being use compared the the mac.

Actually that is changing rapidly... Windows is now considered one of the most secure OS's because they fix the vulnerabilities very quickly. I think 2007/2008 is going to see a massive change... the party is over for both OSX and Linux and they need to wake up. Security is one of my main focuses and I can tell you that the tide is changing. The port of Seattle just went through and forced there Mac users to install firewall software becuase of recent vulnerablities.

Here is some backup info to my claim:

Report Says Windows Gets The Fastest Repairs
By Andy Patrizio


UPDATED: Microsoft is frequently dinged for having insecure products, with security holes and vulnerabilities. But Symantec (Quote), no friend of Microsoft, said in its latest research report that when it comes to widely-used operating systems, Microsoft is doing better overall than its leading commercial competitors.

The information was a part of Symantec's 11th Internet Security Threat Report. The report, released this week, covered a huge range of security and vulnerability issues over the last six months of 2006, including operating systems.

The report found that Microsoft (Quote) Windows had the fewest number of patches and the shortest average patch development time of the five operating systems it monitored in the last six months of 2006.

During this period, 39 vulnerabilities, 12 of which were ranked high priority or severe, were found in Microsoft Windows and the company took an average of 21 days to fix them. It's an increase of the 22 vulnerabilities and 13-day turnaround time for the first half of 2006 but still bested the competition handily.

Red Hat Linux was the next-best performer, requiring an average of 58 days to address a total of 208 vulnerabilities. However, this was a significant increase in both problems and fix time over the first half of 2006, when there were 42 vulnerabilities in Red Hat and the average turnaround was 13 days.

The one bright spot in all of this is that of the 208 Red Hat vulnerabilities, the most of the top five operating systems, only two were considered high severity, 130 were medium severity, and 76 were considered low.

Then there's Mac OS X. Despite the latest TV ads ridiculing the security in Vista with a Matrix-like Agent playing the UAC in Vista, Apple (Quote) has nothing to brag about. Symantec found 43 vulnerabilities in Mac OS X and a 66 day turnaround on fixes. Fortunately, only one was high priority.

Like the others, this is also an increase over the first half of the year. For the first half of 2006, 21 vulnerabilities were found in Mac OS X and Apple took on average 37 days to fix them.

Bringing up the rear were HP-UX from Hewlett Packard (Quote) and Solaris from Sun (Quote). HP-UX had 98 vulnerabilities in the second half of 06 and took 101 days to fix them. Sun, though, really dragged its feet, taking on average 122 days to fix 63 vulnerabilities. It wasn't doing much better in the first half of 06, either. It took 89 days to fix 16 vulnerabilities.

Alfred Huger, vice president of engineering for Symantec Security Center, said the real problem is with Web applications, where two-thirds of all vulnerabilities are found. Operating systems are fairly minor, and despite the long time periods, the vendors are doing "an ok job, just not stellar."

The response from vendor's mentioned in the report was mixed. A Microsoft spokesperson issued a statement to internetnews.com that said in part "As a part of this industry, Microsoft continues to adapt to address these threats and continues to work with others in the industry to protect customers as a whole."

Anuj Nayar, manager of Apple's Mac OS X and developer relations, would only say "Apple takes security very seriously and has a great track record of addressing vulnerabilities before they affect you."

Sun specifically disputed Symantec's data and conclusions in a statement emailed to internetnews.com:

"Symantec's data on security vulnerabilities simply does not match Sun's. We can't verify Symantec's sources and consider their report on Sun inaccurate. From 7/1/06-12/31/06 we published 54 Security Sun Alerts, of which 36 were for Solaris - substantially less the 63 Solaris vulnerabilities claimed in the Symantec report. Past analysis of our vulnerability response shows we responded within five days for the vast majority of vulnerabilities, but averages are skewed by a small minority of 3rd party applications (or code) that are included/bundled with Solaris. Sun responds to all reports of security vulnerabilities, and we stand by our reputation and established track record of responding to security vulnerabilities with Sun Alerts and a quick turnaround time for patches.

Analyst Charles King with Pund-IT said Microsoft has had to be aggressive about dealing with security issues because it's such a big target. In that regard, the company has met the challenge.

"I think in a way that a culture of having been under attack for a decade or more has led to the company taking a very proactive approach to fixing those problems," he told internetnews.com. "In the last 24 months, they've taken a very aggressive stance toward the security of their system. In review after review of Vista, despite its faults, the security of the system has been considerably better than XP."

By contrast, King said there have been complaints in the past about Apple's lack of response to security issues. But as the Mac and Linux gain marketshare, they will have to respond much quicker.

"Are the old models of response to security issues going to be able to fly or will those companies start to take some serious publicity hits from these increasing vulnerabilities and a relatively lackadaisical response to fixing those vulnerabilities?" he asked.

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